I bought two pairs of these from Amazon, Khaki and Black. I immediately submitted a glowing review of the khaki pair I received, giving it 5 stars. Thhis is a well designed travel pant with great pockets. I don't know how many stars to give them now because the black pair had been worn and washed, was crumpled up, missing the packing and extra buttons, and appears to be a factory second. Ironically, the black pair was more expensive! I have read that pants by this manufacturer vary alot in quality within the same model, in size and quality, and this is something to consider when ordering. However, I think Amazon has some fault for sending out this order. Read below for more. The Khaki pair I received that was new and in the packaging. The Khaki pair is great. I am a woman, and these are men's pants. I ordered one size up in the waist for room to move, bend and layer. Before ordering these, I bought a pair at TJ Maxx in an older model, so I knew how they were likely to fit. In my correct size at TJ Maxx in the old model, they were tight across the belly and butt, and movement would been more restricted. Although the next size up is loose, they are light, and work with a belt. I could have actually gotten an inch longer as well if it were available. With the belt holding them up, they are a bit short. The pockets are perfect. I bought these pants for travel to keep belongings secure without carrying a purse. Love the zippers on the pocket under the cargo pockets at the thigh. There is a zip pocket on each thigh under the velcro pocket, as well as zippers on the back pockets. There are also inner and outer pocket as the hip, with vecro on the inner pocket. There is a small hidden pocket near the waist at the back. There are two belt loops, one under the other, one for a one inch belt, and one for a larger one, perhaps 2"? If one uses the small belt loops, a 9/10s inch belt completely covers the opening for the hidden pocket. On the down side, this is slightly below the waist, or makes the pants shorter if worn at the waist. The 9/10s inch belt in the larger loops puts the belt at the top of the pant which is a better look, but does not cover the secret pocket. A large belt in the large loops would also cover the pocket. These pants are light, lay pretty well, and seem durable. They are more attractive than the ex oficio pants, mends or womens, which I considered before buying these. They have better pockets, more zippers, hang better and are cheaper. I have been wearing the older model of the Propper Pantsfrom TJ Maxx (Navy). It is a tends not absorb water and dry quickly. It doesn't wrinkle or show dirt. That pair is extremely light weight, and too cold in the winter without long underwear. These pairs are a different fabric,seem slightly thicker, and look dressier. I noted yesterday in the rain that the Khaki pair spotted, ie, was not water resistent, but almost immediately dried. The pants I bought form Amazon are quite loose, I don't know what to say about whether they run small, or whether the pair I tried at TJ Maxx was just small. They may not be consistent from pair to pair. I had seen this by another reviewer of this brand. THe black pair I bought from Amazon however is a different story. The black pair was bunched up and wrinkeld on receipt,. All labeling and packaging was missing, as well as the extra buttons. It turns out that the black pair was not just missing packaging and buttons, it has been preworn and washed, and was flawed! The small belt loops are too tight to comfortably fit the 9/10s of an inch belt that flows freely though the belt loops on the khaki pair. I was able to carefully force the belt through the unevenly sized loops, but the belt is too snug to move once through the loops without great effort. In any case, I could not wear the pants. Whoever had worn and washed the pants before returning them had done so in a strongly perfumed detergent. I am allergic to fragrances. I could not wear the pants for more than a few minutes without becoming ill. I washed them this morning, but the fragrance did not come out. I put them through the wash again on the heavy cycle, with a double rinse. I don't know whether I will be able to use the pants, or will have to return them. Tthe fact that Amazon sent these pants to me at all is disturbing. Basically, they sent me used factory seconds for the price of new. For me, this is a problem. I would normally just return them, but I am leaving on a trip when I had anticipated using the pants. I don't have time to reorder. This is the second time this has happened to me with Amazon recently. The first was a Planetary Design travel mug with a visibly damaged lid. Whoever packed it clearly was aware that the product was flawed, but figured they would send it to an online customer who would then have to bear the burden of either accepting the flaw, or mailing it back. In that case as well, I did not work for me to return and reorder, because I had bought it and planned to use it on a trip which would occur before I could get a new order. Amazon made good on the cup, and the fault may have been with Planetary Design. Now it has happened again. I realize I am at fault for ordering close to the time I plan to use these items. However, I also had a expection that Amazon would follow normal business practices, and when advertizing new merchandise, would not send out visibly flawed, used or defective items. Amazon is good about discounting defective items or accepting returns after complaints. However, this cannot really make one "whole" when one does not have the item one has ordered in a timely manner. I am pretty upset by this second incident. I don't know if I will return the pants or not because I really wanted black for my trip. I am waiting to see if I can get the perfume out sufficiently that I can wear them. I angry about paying full price for used factory seconds that I may not actually be able to use, and that will never be what I ordered. The ones I got at TJ Maxx were $7.99, still had the lables and were not flawed. At TJ Maxx I might have expected seconds. On Amazon, the black pair was supposed to be new, and was $49.99. So, these pants are a great design, and wonderful travel pants if you get a good pair. Not sure how many stars to give it, and if it is Propper or Amazon to whom my complaints should be directed.
